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Manhunt for Savage ends with capture

Savage, Laffoon found at Portland laundry

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Posted: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:18 pm | Updated: 5:46 pm, Wed Sep 11, 2013.

Troy Police, working with law-enforcement officers in Portland, Ore., have arrested fugitive Dan James “DJ” Savage at a laundry.

Sandra Laffoon, the woman Savage is charged with assaulting, told police Monday she went with Savage willingly.

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          • Discuss

          Welcome to the discussion.

          72 comments:

          • montanaraised posted at 7:02 am on Mon, Sep 16, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            I guess by actually naming the six who testified and adding in the other six to get to the twelve the paper says testified is just too hard for you to comprehend. The real reason for all these back and forths was that someone actually had the guts to say, "hey, wait a minute, there were six others that testified at Savage's trial that the jury ALSO didn't believe." That didn't set right with you because of your personal vendetta against anything Libby so you tried to throw mud on the issue by not being able to add. Like I said, since you hate everything Libby so much pick up your dang phone, support your family, get a job.

             
          • posted at 7:34 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            Posts:

            And, while you never said the victim was an "expert moron" you did incate that the victim was an "expert victim".

             
          • posted at 7:27 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            Posts:

            Don't forget, Joe Cik did not testify. He was the prosecutor. You added DJ into the mix, not me. I can't wait to see what you come up with this time. And while your at it, bb82 was the one that corrected your math, take some of your angst out on him. Your fixation with all things DC is very creepy.

             
          • posted at 7:23 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            Posts:

            MR, I identified Joe Cik, Carol Ramos, and Robin Shiferl as the people the jury did not trust. 3 people. Your simple comment that there were "6 others" that testified still doesn't add up. 6+3=9 A total of twelve (12) people testified. Take your shoes off when you run the numbers and try again.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 6:18 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            What did we have here 8ROLL, 15-20 back and forths which started with a simple comment by me that the jury in this trial not only didn't believe the people you identified as "untrustworthy" but that there were 6 others that also testified that the jury apparently didn't believe. All this energy, all this Libby hate from you, and you have been made a fool of AGAIN. Not to worry it WILL continue. You can't help yourself. You are habitual story teller and can't find good in anything Libby. I will continue to report on your shortcomings. The issues don't even matter anymore. Your stupidity, arrogance, half truths, innuendos, conspiracy theories, is what drives me. I hear North Dakota calling. Pick up your dang phone!!!!!

             
          • montanaraised posted at 6:11 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            There is always one thing that you will NEVER disappoint anybody on 8ROLL...and that's EVER admitting when you are wrong. Never said the victim was an expert moron. She was one of the 6 who testified along with SIX others, again, moron. Even when it is in black and white you continue to bully your way through. You are nothing but a waste of good air.

             
          • posted at 3:22 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            Posts:

            I'm just pointing out that the farther MR goes to defend her math deficiencies, the more comical this becomes. Expert victims? Armed Chihuahuas? This is great stuff.
            .

             
          • homebody posted at 2:10 pm on Sun, Sep 15, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            That depends xcav8orr. If we base expert level on experience with this kind of testimony than no, the victim is not an expert but I think Savage might have qualified by now. Sorry....couldn't help myself on that one. Tasteless I know.

             
          • posted at 6:31 pm on Sat, Sep 14, 2013.

            Posts:

            Is the victim an 'expert' victim?

             
          • montanaraised posted at 4:48 pm on Sat, Sep 14, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            8ROLL..let me try this again so even a unemployed moron can follow it. The paper said 12 witnesses testified. It further identifies 1)Savage, 2)Robin Shiferl, 3) Carol Ramos, 4) David Hall, 5) someone from Frontier Communications, and finally if your reading comprehension will allow you 6) the VICTIM also testified. Now subtract 6 from 12 and see if you can pass a simple addition/subtraction problem.

             
          • posted at 11:05 am on Sat, Sep 14, 2013.

            Posts:

            MR, Now the neighbors Chihuahua ATTACKED you? The more times you tell this story, the more interesting it gets.Was he armed? How badly were you hurt before you murdered him? Why were you packing heat? Zombies?

            By the way, I just read the story "Savage is acquitted of witness tampering, assault charges". The story mentions DJ, Carol Ramos and Robin Shiferl, but says nothing about your fictional 6 "experts" that you attempted to use to correct your math deficiencies. Lying doesn't help. 12-3=9.

             
          • Concerned About Libby posted at 10:51 am on Sat, Sep 14, 2013.

            Concerned About Libby Posts: 253

            Xcav8orr, you can't fix stupid. As much as we try and try to educate and help the uneducated and misinformed, sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

            Don't hold it against Boredwithit, when she referred to me as "robbie" in a previous post, it became clear she/he is someone I knew growing up there.

            It appears as if he/she got the best of what libby had to offer as far as education and her/his comprehension skills and common sense weren't part of the curriculum back then.

            I won't pick on her/him for the aptitude level, and will just chalk it up to being in the Libby rumor mill.

            Anybody that knows me whatsoever, knows that the allegations are ridiculous. The key to that phrase is anyone who knows me!

             
          • posted at 9:28 am on Sat, Sep 14, 2013.

            Posts:

            She wasn't saved by the judge, boredwithit, she was saved by the law that allows her to hide behind her employer.

             
          • boredwithit posted at 10:49 pm on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            Hey Rob! I see that another one of your conspiretors was saved by the judge!
            Case is falling apart more and more with each passing day.
            Looking a lot like a DJ savage case. This guy is making you look bad Rob.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 8:41 pm on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            No NO NO..8ROLL...it wasn't the neighbor's dog that attacked me on MY property. He told me after the first incident that his dog never leaves his yard. It must have been a stray or maybe even a wild deer poaching dog that NEEDED to be dispatched. Poachers are just a step ahead of someone who would take a viable, profit making, family owned business and run it into the ground. I don't know why someone would do that. Was it laziness? Was it how they treated their customers? Was it the work performance? hard to understand sometimes.

             
          • posted at 5:13 pm on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            Posts:

            I put poachers just a step above cretins who murder their neighbors companion animals...

             
          • montanaraised posted at 3:17 pm on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            I wonder if TWN will post the story about the "only honest councilman" on the city council being up to elbows in alligators with the legal system, himself. I can't wait for that story to hit cyber space. Going to be some interesting back and forth I suspect. Not saying he is guilty. We are ALL supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but a poacher is one of the lowest forms of life on the planet. Let's hope that that isn't the case.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 1:40 pm on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            If you are capable of doing an advanced search for the original story of this guys acquittal, you would find that "a total of 12 witnesses testified". The article further indicates that there were 6 "experts" that testified, including the police officers. So one would tend to think that if there are 12 witnesses and 6 are named as either "experts" or police officers, then one could further conclude that there were 6 other witnesses. My math is perfect 8ROLL. Your hatred for anything Libby clouds your understanding.

             
          • posted at 1:14 pm on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            Posts:

            I just blew milk out of my nose, best laugh I've had in a long time. Gracias MR. Yo quiero chihuahua mathmaticas.

             
          • boredwithit posted at 10:56 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            You responded pretty much how I expected you would.

             
          • DC Orr posted at 8:44 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            DC Orr Posts: 215

            The neighbors chihuahua could subtract 3 from 12. Got im killed.

             
          • busybody82 posted at 8:22 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            busybody82 Posts: 128

            It's OK DC I got this one. 12 people testified at DJs trial. Subtract DJ, Carol Ramos, and Robin Shiferl and MR comes up with 6 OTHER witnesses. 12-3=6? MR, It's good to see you are as good at math as you are at reading comprehension. Typical. Thanks for playing but there is no prize for you.

             
          • posted at 7:46 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            Posts:

            I won't respond to your hostility, MR, I mentioned the WITNESSES that I knew were associated with the Judge and County Attorney. Get someone else to feed your wrath about your circumstances.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 7:05 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            8ROLL...there were 6 OTHER witnesses besides the defendant and the "experts" called to testify. Maybe your memory is failing , conveniently, again.

             
          • posted at 6:05 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            Posts:

            Barker v Wingo. The Supremes established that the right to a speedy trial is an issue decided on a case by case basis. Willie Barker spent 5 years awaiting trial. He did not assert his right to a speedy trial because it was in his best interests to drag it out in the hope that his accomplice would not be convicted and would not testify against him. It took 6 (six) SIX trials to convict his accomplice.

            WOW, and I thought Lincoln County had incompetent County prosecutors. However, Willie Barker was prosecuted successfully and convicted. DJ Savage was not convicted because the Lincoln County Attorney did not put together a credible case. DJ has every right to claim he was abused by being held when there was no credible case against him.

            Now Fergie, I also did a little study on jury nullification. There is where the citizens of this County could balance the power struggle with these corrupt crooks. The jury has the right to weigh not only the evidence, but the law itself. The jury has immense power. As long as there is a corrupt system, a jury trial is the best way to go. Your fate is then placed more in the hands of honest people. I wish I had known we could ignore the Judges instructions when I served on my first jury. The Judges instructions kept us from doing the right thing and we foolishly believed the Judge.

             
          • Concerned About Libby posted at 1:36 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            Concerned About Libby Posts: 253

            Boredwithit... I am not quite sure how to respond to your post. The entire process has been traumatic to our family, and I'm not going to give you some perverted kind of entertainment to satisfy your curiousity.

            The jury heard their story, with their lying cops and lying county attorney, and even the lies that they made my son tell on the stand.

            They then heard me.... only me... see, because I wasn't able to put any witnesses on the stand. I wasn't able to bring up any mention of conspiracy or coverup. I had to simply talk about what happened that day, and more importantly, what didn't happen that day.

            They also heard Roger Guches lie to the jury over and over and over.... after he lied and lied, and I got him to be very clear about his lies... I pulled out the recorded interview that I had taken six months prior. Then the jury got to hear another set of lies in his own words.

            They also heard Guches explain six different stories of how and why he rearranged the evidence to make it look like the story they were telling.

            They also viewed the photos of my 31 injuries, and the photo of my son's scratch on his ear lobe. They were able to view the photos of what remained of the wall that I allowed my son to repeatedly throw me into, while I restrained myself from retaliating, because he's my son.

            They also were able to hear the audios of the officers talking over the radio, conspiring to arrest me before they even arrived on scene because I was , as John Graham so eloquantly pointed out to them on their drive out there, "that's the guy from the marina", in which Guches stated "ooooh, 10-4".

            They also heard Bryce Ford come on directly after, and make sure they knew that I was "that guy". All before they even arrived out there.

            Now, not only did Cik, Sheffield, and Ramos bribe my son to lie, they coerced him into thinking that he was somehow a victim.

            At the end of the long day, and the laundry list of lies and deceit these crooks tried to get by the 6 person jury, the jury saw right through it. Not only did they see right through it, they delivered a not guilty verdict in less than 45 minutes.

            That's where the focus should be, and is. I'm not going to entertain you and allow you to get a thrill from hearing a story of an incident that has been traumatic to the entire family.... not because of the events that day, but because of what the defendants did to the children over the next year.

             
          • homebody posted at 12:45 am on Fri, Sep 13, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            It's very sad a article is posted that will involve a trial and it turns into someone's rant on the justice system that doesn't even pertain to this horrible event. Especially when the man involved in this thrives on people believing he will be treated unfairly to begin with. I remember the last article involving Savage and because I brought up a few details of his past, he felt I was some corrupt county official. Not so, but he was so set on convincing himself and everyone else he was some kind of target he jumped right to that. I see a pattern developing here with blame directed at the county but I think this time around for Savage, the county will be sure not to fail. In fact his efforts to face it all again will ensure they work extremely hard to bring justice down on him with no mistakes. I am feeling pretty confident in the system for this incident, they can't afford to let him walk again. Couldn't last time either and I am sure they will cover every single fact and detail they may have missed before.

             
          • boredwithit posted at 11:53 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            Rob, I think it would be helpful for all of us to better understand your claim against the county and the judge if you explained what actually happened on that day the cops were called.
            You have done a great job explaining the aftermath. Please tell us what might take place at home that leads to a single father and his children calling 911 for a mediator!
            I think calling a family councilor or another parent for some advice may have avoided all of this turmoil!
            Just sayin!
            I'm not defending the county, just think there may be more to it.

             
          • turd ferguson posted at 10:38 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            turd ferguson Posts: 497

            CAL, I think I understand your longwinded tendencies. I am sure it is therapeutic for you to vent a bit. Gladly your posts are clear and coherent, even when long.

            Xcav8orr, that was only after much arm twisting. I consider that you calling me by name, not name calling. You will likely be disappointed by the Supreme Court’s criteria for what is a speedy trial. It is rather vague and permissive, and not what a read of the Sixth Amendment would lead most people to assume. Good luck ignoring MR. Dang, before I even finished writing this post, you fell right back into it. You at least made it 3 hours. That’s a good start. Kudos.

            MR, jurors get to vote however they like for whatever reason they like. Yes, there are instructions given and expectations, but a jury of peers able to nullify charges for whatever reason (including personal feelings) is one of the checks and balances in our system. If you don’t like that, it doesn’t change the facts, Jack. That is the way of things.

             
          • posted at 10:01 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            Posts:

            Reading Comprehension, MR. Carol Ramos and Robin Shiferl were WITNESSES, Joe Cik was the prosecutor who put the case together using them as WITNESSES. The jury didn't believe the WITNESSES and DJ walked free to allegedly make this present mess.

            I would hope any potential juror in this County knows that Joe Cik abuses children by bribing them to lie in an attempt to frame innocent people. That is not revenge, that is not personal feelings, that is responsible citizenship.

            Jurors have a duty to weigh the integrity of the testimony these WITNESSES provide. If they know the WITNESSES have past history of bribing children to purjure themselves, the testimony these WITNESSES provide should be discarded.

            It is also solid citizenship to discern whether you can trust you County Attorneys Office or not. Their lack of credibility will continue to release criminals onto the streets.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 6:47 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            8ROLL..in regards to your post on Sept. 07, at 7:48am, you actually blame Cik and others for this clown getting off the last time. Dang, I would hope that any honest citizen would look at the evidence presented by WITNESSES and not take personal vendettas, un-substantiated rumors, or any thing else into their deliberations. I would suspect that for whatever reason the jurors didn't believe the WITNESSES, that the county put forth to testify about what did or didn't happen. If they allowed personal feelings about the county attorney's office to sway their decision, I certainly don't want them serving in a jury pool. That isn't justice. That is just a revenge verdict. We don't need that kind of thinking in our justice system. Just the facts, Jack.

             
          • posted at 6:25 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            Posts:

            Since we're keeping each other honest Fergie, I did call you Turd once. I will commit to reading a dry, boring Supreme Court decision and I expect you'll hear from me.

            I have also been counseled to ignore MRs hostle remarks and only respond to cogent, and on-topic, remarks. Wish me luck on that one.

             
          • Concerned About Libby posted at 5:58 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            Concerned About Libby Posts: 253

            TF, I actually meant to just write a short little comment... clearly I get long winded sometimes. ha

            You are absolutely correct on disclosure of exculpatory information. Not only do they not disclose information, but they often times "misplace" certain evidence, or sometimes the recording devices just cease to function at opportune times.

            Sometimes, they even forget what the witnesses clearly said, and write a narrative police report with all kinds of additional information that they come up with.

            On occasion, they ignore subpoenas for phone records, or magically tell the court that Alltel and At and T merged, so we just could get em in time.

            And then there's the 911 recording. Apparently it has been 14 minutes off FOREVER... and they just didn't know how to fix it... but magically when I called in on a test call, and then compared my phone records with their time stamp... it was somehow fixed all the sudden... but when it really counts, it was 14 minutes off that day apparently.

            Then you have Smith, who actually was the only one that did turn in his cell records... but wait, it turns out he turned in his wife's cell records to the judge.... "oops, I'm sorry your honor, we are on the same plan, and I must have grabbed the wrong one". lol

            So yes, exculpatory information has a tendency of not being disclosed and/or destroyed on a routine basis... but why wouldn't it? I mean, it's so we can get the "bad guys" off the streets, cuz we are the "good guys", and i'm sure if he didn't do this, he did something that is deserving of our wrath. lol

            See, here I go again. Can't seem to keep it short. There's just so much, I have tried to just let the courts tell it, and stick to facts.

            By the way, why aren't the good guys commenting on here? You know, they County Attorney office, Sheffield, Cik, Bowe? All we get out of them is "no comment"?

            We know they read this every day, because one of the wives, of one of the defendants, went out to one of the "posters" on this forum's house and confronted him. Apparently there was more money given to my son than even I knew about, according to her.

            These were not bribes though.. these were moneys that were given from anonymous donors in the community that were concerned.

            I do believe we are uncovering some skeletons in the closets of these people.

            So we clearly know they read it... why aren't they rebutting this stuff? Hell, they can even be anonymous-ish!

            They probably just are hoping it will all go away.

            Maybe it will... I will make a deal with em... they go, and I'll go. Them first though!

             
          • turd ferguson posted at 5:24 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            turd ferguson Posts: 497

            CAL, thoughtful post, if I may add that you forgot to mention another of the responsibilities of a prosecutor to “make timely disclosure to the defense of all evidence or information known to the prosecutor that tends to negate the guilt of the accused or mitigates the offense, and, in connection with sentencing, disclose to the defense and to the tribunal all unprivileged mitigating information known to the prosecutor”. A defense attorney’s obligation is to defend their client, regardless of truth (or apparent truth), a prosecutor’s obligation is (supposed to be) to the truth first, not the police’s allegations.

            As to arguing ‘semantics or nit picking at words’, as I’m sure you well know certain words have very particular meanings when it comes to legal matters. After so many instances of ‘proved innocent’ and ‘found guilty by a court’ were used improperly, clarification was needed. It is difficult to have a discussion of ideas if the meaning of individual words or phrases is getting in the way of clearly conveying, or understanding a position.

            Xcav8orr, no apology (phonetic spelling, or otherwise) is necessary. I would love to see Mr. Cik, and others, held to account for any illegal and/or unethical actions. Without accountability of elites we will degrade into the type of justice experienced in third world countries. As for what is a speedy trial, I gave you the Supreme Court’s view, which isn’t influenced by my own judgment of Mr. Savage’s character or conduct. I am able to keep my personal feelings out of a consideration of his rights. I have no idea if you read Barker v. Wingo, but you may want to give it a read before you make a declaration of a rights violation.

            MR, I’d just like to point out that xcav8orr can be argued with, without either side calling names.

             
          • posted at 2:12 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            Posts:

            Let me start be opologizing, Fergie. I should have never said anything about DJ being proven innocent. I agree with you that failure to prove guilt does not prove the inverse. In legal terms, presumption of innocence means the accused has absolutely no burden to prove their innocence, all of that burden is on the accuser. The PREsumption of innocence is a starting point that the law uses to avoid PREjudice, presumption of guilt.

            Now it is OK for us to express our disgust with woman abusers or a child abuser personally, but the law is held to a higher standard. The legal system is required to presume innocence. I would love to see Mr. Cik brought up on ethics charges, there is little precedence to give me hope it will happen. But, absent legal allegations, Mr. Cik is not presumed innocent, he was granted immunity for subornation of perjury for abusing children in his care. He is a criminal who was granted immunity.

            We are discussing two separate fields here, personal and legal. I am trying to advocate for a local legal system which acknowledges and obeys the law. You are advocating for personal obedience to the law on the part of DJ. We aren't on different sides of the separate issues, we just haven't yet picked a single issue.

            Much like our views of what constitutes a speedy trial. You have no sympathy for Mr. Savage sitting in jail awaiting trial, personally because of your prejudice, but the legal system is again held to a different standard, a legal standard. Excessive bail and lengthy incarceration prior to trial are areas where those in power, judges, have discretion and with that discretion comes the ability to abuse the power. Mr. Savage was aquitted after a long jail term. I hope that never happens to you, but I would defend your right to reasonable bail and a speedy trial.

            Personally, I think protection of women and children is an ethical duty for the able bodied, even the old and decrepit like myself. Legally, victims of abuse have great resources available to break out of the cycle of abuse. I don't think we have any disagreement there, Fergie. I just want those legal resources to protect the rights of all, the accused and the abused. But who advocates for Rob Hubbards children when they are victims of the legal system? When it is reduced to a simple power struggle, and legal boundaries like subornation of perjury are crossed, justice is lost.

             
          • Concerned About Libby posted at 1:55 pm on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            Concerned About Libby Posts: 253

            Everyone has valid points on here. I will give my opinion, (humble as it may be), and chime in on the presumption of innocence/proven not guilty issue.

            Walking down the street, minding your own business, you are innocent. You cross the road. An officer cites you for j-walking, but you say you used the cross walk.

            You are still presumed innocent until proven guilty.

            All you have at this point, is an officer saying you didn't use the crosswalk, and you stating that you did.

            It's very simple. Since you cannot agree on the truth of the assertions, you need a neutral third party to be the "judge" of the situation.

            Because the officer isn't a licensed attorney, he needs the County Attorney or City Attorney, etc, that will try to PROVE that the officer was right and you were wrong.

            You on the other hand, can either defend yourself, or hire an attorney to defend yourself against the allegations.

            The County Attorney is supposed to look at the evidence given to him by the officers, and make an opinion on whether he first believes that there was a crime committed.

            At the arraignment, there is to be an impartial Judge, that also looks at the evidence objectively, and is to apply the law to the facts presented to him, and determine if there is probable cause to proceed.

            All the while, the defendant is to be presumed innocent. And he doesn't lose that presumption at any time during the litigation. He is not even obligated to speak or present any evidence whatsoever.

            Remember, he was walking down the road minding his own business when this officer ALLEGED that he j-walked, and he in turn disputes that.

            So, the burden of persuasion is on the County Attorney to :1. make sure that he has a case by looking at the evidence and 2. present facts to the jury/judge to try to PROVE his guilt. In the event that he cannot persuade the judge/jury of his guilt, then a "not guilty" verdict is reached and handed down.

            As DC is trying to explain, there are to be checks and balances at every stage of the system.

            You are not to have the police, county attorney, and the judge all three deciding that it's "us" against him. It's supposed to be independent, so that citizens rights are not violated.

            Not only do these characters all chum around as a normal course of business, they take the "we" against "them" attitude, and a defendant is left to try and figure out how he can clear his name because he is innocent.

            Unfortunately the checks and balances is out of whack in Libby, and most other places. It's not about truth, it's about what you can prove. It's also about covering each other. (which is why they appointed Sheffield in the first place... a cop...not an attorney.. with no legal background.. and clearly has a chip on his shoulder against defendants)

            In my case, the officers were told point blank that I was the victim. They were told that by the children at the scene, and it is recorded (at least parts of it before the county attorney and sheriff office either destroyed the other half, or they intentionally turned it off).

            It was clear that the police report was fabricated, because Smith stated he interviewed witnesses, and gave an account of what the witnesses said in the police report, and those conversations never happened.

            Then Guches rearranged items at the scene and took photos. Little did he realize that he unintentionally took one photo before he re arranged it and the video was shooting the first half of the on scene, which clearly showed the scene before it was staged.

            Cik then should have not pursued the case... and in a normal situation he would not have... but this was a vendetta that he knew happened, therefore that checks and balances failed because he was in on it.

            Sheffield instigated the whole thing, so of course that checks and balances failed as well, because of course he was going to rule there was probable cause.

            The unfortunate part of all of that, is that what Cik and Sheffield did, is considered a part of their job duties, even if it was malicious and intentional, and they are granted immunity from suit. ALSO DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE INNOCENT OR GUILTY, just that they are IMMUNE from suit!

            What happened next is the atrocious part.

            It has NOT been proven, because the County Attorney would have to bring charges against his own employee, so it will only have a chance to be proven if the Montana AG gets involved... but the testimony was clear that Joe Cik engaged in bribery and coersion. That is from sworn testimony. Believe it or don't believe it, it's just testimony, but it's testimony from the same people that "boredwithit" put so much emphasis in their credibility when she stated "you do realize it was his kids that called the cops". Therefore, asserting that my kids must be telling the truth.

            The truth is, they did tell the truth. They did call the cops. And I raised my kids to be honest and that cops are good. (even though I think they are a bunch of unethical punks alot of the times). I took the stance of "do as I say, not as I do", and they respected law enforcement.

            Which is why my son and I both agreed to call the police. It was a situation that clearly needed a mediator, and we both decided to call the police.

            We never thought in a million years, that it would come to this. But it did. And the reasons it did, is because of a vendetta from these boys, because I got the best of em at their own game, and they didn't like it.

            So stop with the semantics and the knit picking over a word here and a word there.

            The focus should be on them, not on splitting hairs of legal issues. None of us are lawyers, and even if we were, we just would interpret it the way we want to interpret it. Law is not black and white.

            What is black and white, is that the evidence presented, showed enough facts that supported the contention that Cik and Sheffield and all the other players... bribed the kids (successfully one of them), manipulated the system, coerced the kids to lie to their only surviving parent and sense of stability they know, and tore a tight knit, healthy family apart.... all because they got their feelings hurt.

            They fabricated evidence and police reports. They persuaded other LCSO officers to sign false affidavits and perjure themselves, so that they can cover their tracks.

            It's amazing that this DJ character, and myself, and any other ACCUSED person is essentially guilty in your minds, without even a trial... but yet, when accusations such as my lawsuit are brought forth, all the sudden the "presumed innocent" becomes paramount..

            and furthermore, even when evidence is submitted and brought out in a court of law... there are still many of you who don't believe it.

            It's their end game... and they win every time, because you want so badly to believe that it couldn't happen in Libby, MT. Not our people... these are great guys. They may be great guys... and probably are... but these great guys made bad decisions and did bad deeds.... doesn't mean they are bad people..they are just good people that did bad things.

            And for that... they are being held to answer for their bad deeds, just like any one of us should and do have to.

            Every person in Lincoln County should be on the side of Justice. These defendants should be presumed innocent until proven guilty as well.

            Believe me when i say, I too couldn't believe what I say when I saw it. Even three years later and knowing full well they did this based on EVIDENCE, I still find myself scratching my head and not believing they went to these lengths. So, I know why you want to believe them.

            Just remember this... if there is ANY truth to my allegations... even 10 percent... and I just made up the other 90 percent..... none of these people should be in the roles they are in... and you people can change that.

            It's the whole rationale behind them having immunity. There are presumably other ways to deal with bad apples in elected positions... it's called elections. Or Judicial Standards Commission... or the AG office.

            I'm doing my part.. you guys should all be doing yours... after all, it's your town and your officials.... and your future... and heaven forbid you ever cross one of these people in the small town, because they clearly have the authority to ruin you!


             
          • turd ferguson posted at 10:50 am on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            turd ferguson Posts: 497

            Xcav8orr, failing to prove guilt does not prove the inverse (innocence), it only means failing to prove guilt. The presumption of innocence is simply that, a presumption, not a finding of fact or a fact that exists if guilt cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Trying to equate the word “presumption” with the word “fact” will not be successful.

            In most cases proving charges beyond a reasonable doubt to overcome the presumption of innocence is a “huge hurdle” for ANY prosecutor – lazy, corrupt, incompetent, competent, skilled, virtuous, etc. Domestic violence/abuse cases are very difficult to successfully prosecute when the abused are uncooperative with prosecution because of love, fear, feeling it is somehow their own fault, many things found in ‘battered person syndrome’. If the victim, and often the only witness will not testify, or honestly testify, juries are left with little choice given the burden of proof that must be met. I do not have complaints with how the system is designed, I believe it is a reasonably good balance of a lot of competing factors, but I absolutely will not say, as you have, that Mr. Savage was “proven innocent”. He certainly was not proven anything. He was not proven guilty, which is different than proven not guilty (or innocent). He may not be a convicted criminal, but he is a criminal none the less. You have characterized many public officials as “criminals” with far less evidence than is available on Mr. Savage’s pattern of behavior.

            As for your claim that Mr. Savage’s right to a speedy trial was violated, you may want to read up on Barker v. Wingo. The SCOTUS seems to disagree with your assertion and your interpretation of the Sixth Amendment. You suggest to ‘put yourself in Mr. Savage’s shoes’. I like to think that I have a healthy imagination, but I am having a difficult time trying to imagine how it would feel to be a serial abuser of women, or even be an abuser of one. I have no sympathy for Mr. Savage sitting in jail, awaiting trial, after being arrested based on probable cause, even with him eventually not being convicted.

            You are aging being very sloppy and inaccurate with your description of the rulings on Mr. Cik and Judge Sheffield in Mr. Hubbard’s case. You state again “The prosecutor was proven guilty”. Wrong. There has been no arrest, charges, and conviction. If you are declaring them guilty in your own court of personal opinion, so be it, that is your right to do, but to portray it as a conviction of a crime is absolutely wrong. Even with immunity, Mr. Cik can be punished by the State Bar of Montana for misconduct, so the show may not be over for Mr. Cik, depending on how much substance is there.

            You state that “I have no worries that DJ would assault me, especially since I voice an opinion in favor of his rights.” I don’t think you need to be personally worried about him assaulting you, but I think it has less to do with how you feel about his (and I am assuming anyone’s) rights than it has to do with you being a little too old and too male for his taste in who he likes to abuse. As you like to state how much you are for people’s rights (which I think is great) I think you are failing to calculate the rights of females to be free from the abuse of this predator. Individual rights end somewhere near where the public peril begins.

            I agree with you 100% on “No one in America should ever face malicious prosecution.” There are few bigger betrayals of the public trust than that.

             
          • homebody posted at 9:32 am on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            There is a process when a man gets accused and arrested for crimes before a trial. It's called bail and he didn't utilize that process. Blaming the justice system strictly for his time spent would be ignoring the fact the system does give that option even when it's not in the best interest of society.

             
          • posted at 6:21 am on Thu, Sep 12, 2013.

            Posts:

            If the saying is "innocent until proven guilty", and DJ was not proven guilty, he is innocent. Not just found innocent, presumed innocent until found guilty. The presumption of innocence is a huge hurdle for lazy and corrupt prosecutors. They actually have a burden of proof while the accused has absolutely none. They are presumed innocent.

            I'm not trying to paint DJ as a martyr, that is why I clarified that I don't know him. He may very well be a reprehensible man who abuses women, that is the accusation after all. Actually more than once that is the accusation. My point is that he is protected from prosecutorial misconduct by simple virtue of living in America, if this is still the America of my youth. Justice is the goal, not deterrence, corrections, or punishment. Justice must be JUST.

            Nearly a year in jail without an effective prosecution is not acceptable, that is why a speedy trial is a "right". Put yourself in his shoes. Boredwithit says reasonable doubt sends a lot of criminals free? Reasonable doubt saves innocent people from malicious prosecution by unscrupulous authoritarians. William Blackstone said, "better that ten guilty persons escape than that ONE innocent suffer".

            the Judges ruling gave Joe Cik and Judge Sheffield immunity for their actions in the, again, unsuccessful prosecution (persecution) of Rob Hubbard. Rob's lawsuit alleges that he was the victim of an assault and that the police manipulated evidence to make it look like he was the primary aggressor. He further alleges a conspiracy that includes the Sheriff and the Judge holding a grudge. The Judges' ruling, a Court Order, identifies that there was evidence that Rob's own children were pressured by Joe Cik to commit perjury in an effort to support the notion Rob was the aggressor. Rob was innocent of the charges. The Judge and the prosecutor have immunity from prosecution. The prosecutor was proven guilty, but given immunity. The accusations of the Judges wife and secretary bribing Robs children were not addressed.

            In both cases, the prosecutors failed to make a good case, boredwithit. Good cases produce convictions. Even a conviction using abuse of children to produce subornation of perjury would not be a "good case". This is where the discussion leads to public trust in the system.

            I think the record shows DJ plead no contest to a charge of assault on a woman. I have no worries that DJ would assault me, especially since I voice an opinion in favor of his rights. Joe Cik may very well hate the fact that I am highlighting his corruption and abuse of children evidenced in the Court Order. There is a very real fear, given his proven abuse of the system, that he would attempt to manufacture a criminal case against me. That fact is the very epitome of loss of public trust. Joe Cik can never be trusted with the power inherent in his position. His colleagues who have turned a blind eye to his misconduct cannot be trusted either. One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch.

            I've spent my life trying to avoid interaction with the legal system. I've also been where Rob and DJ have been, wrongfully accused and held at risk of prosecutorial misconduct. No one in America should ever face malicious prosecution.

             
          • boredwithit posted at 11:29 pm on Wed, Sep 11, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            I couldn't have said it better myself Fergy! reasonable doubt sends a lot of criminals free. Its not always the prosecutors that fail to make a good case. Sometimes the jury has a tough time following simple instructions. Not everyone is qualified to sit on a jury!

             
          • turd ferguson posted at 9:56 pm on Wed, Sep 11, 2013.

            turd ferguson Posts: 497

            Xcav8orr, you might want to pump your brakes a little bit. The accused are not “found innocent” in a criminal case. They are found guilty or not guilty. Not guilty means that the prosecution failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. There can be a large chasm between “not guilty” and “innocent”. Furthermore, allegations of corruption in a judicial system, true or not, do not change whether or not this guy abused these women. I suspect that you already know all of this, so I’m not understanding why you are trying to paint this guy as a martyr.

            Did I miss a trial and conviction of the Deputy County Attorney on charges of suborning perjury? You state he was found guilty of that by a court. Again, there is a significant difference between a ruling by a judge on pretrial motions and a conviction on an actual charge.

            You also state “The ultimate goal in our system is not so much punishment as it is corrections. In a perfect world.” It is strange that you fail to mention deterrence as a/the goal of our justice system. I’m not going to be so bold as to state that punishment, correction, or deterrence is ‘the ultimate goal’ in reality, but in a perfect world, I would prefer deterrence.

            Lastly you state “In my book, DJ is light years ahead of the prosecutor on issues of trustworthiness and ability to avoid violent action.” Really? In my book, I would try to avoid interaction with either one.

             
          • posted at 12:55 pm on Wed, Sep 11, 2013.

            Posts:

            That's a good point, boredwithit. The Chief and his crew apprehends and investigates, then the charges determine who will prosecute using the evidence they collect. The City PD will not prosecute, thus they are not in position to do the railroading. Unless you are accusing them of failing to investigate or of falsifying evidence like the County Attorney does. Please clarify this point.

            I have never seen evidence supporting that notion, they seem like a pretty top notch bunch of law enforcement personnel. Either way, I'm hoping DJ is not ever railroaded again.

            There are rumblings that DJ may face Federal prosecution. Maybe something about crossing State lines.
            Maybe the Feds just recognize that the County Attorneys Office is not capable of fair prosecution. His alleged victim will be empowered by the prosecution with an opportunity to present her side and aid in proving a case against him.

            Homebody, let me make this clear. I don't know DJ, never met him. I am not enamored by his charisma. To me, DJ is just another person who is being brought into the legal justice system. As such, he enjoys the "presumption of innocence" that has made American jurisprudence a shining beacon to the rest of the world. A very thorough system of checks and balances should be set in motion to weigh evidence and present that evidence to a jury for a decision. The ultimate goal in our system is not so much punishment as it is corrections. In a perfect world.

            In Lincoln County, you can expect the prosecutors to violate all that American society holds dear in our justice system. You can expect them to suborn perjury, and once they cross that line there is nothing you can trust them with. Justice is lost in Lincoln County and has become a simple matter of brute force, railroading.

            DJ was found innocent after a year in jail by the court. The Deputy County Attorney has been found guilty of subornation of perjury with children by the court, but given immunity.

            In my book, DJ is light years ahead of the prosecutor on issues of trustworthiness and ability to avoid violent action.

             
          • homebody posted at 9:46 am on Wed, Sep 11, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            DJ was not railroaded, he walked but his supporters have been railroaded, lied to, manipulated, and made fools of by his sociopathic tendencies. He is completely insane and that needs to be understood before his latest victim is tossed aside as another problem woman in HIS life. People need to stop placing judgment on courts and the victims and start taking a clear look at a man who has made a fool of so many people. When you say "how many supporters he has should tell us something about him" it is in fact making you one of his fools. His pattern of violence does not stop and for some insane reason neither does the support by others. It is mind blowing he has been able to convince so many he is the victim of others and the support needs to be given to this woman before she feels the power of his popularity and is torn down even more than she may already be. Do not be one of his fools, he has enough.

             
          • boredwithit posted at 9:14 am on Wed, Sep 11, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            I don't recall Chief Mcleod working for the county. Pretty sure Troy PD was after Savage not Lincoln county.
            Gonna have to blame someone else for the railroading this time.

             
          • posted at 6:11 am on Wed, Sep 11, 2013.

            Posts:

            Just once could you stay on topic, MR. This article is not about DC. It is about a man who has been railroaded before by the corrupt County Attorneys Office. He spent a year in jail before going to court and being acquitted, judged innocent by the LAW. He has alot of supporters, that tells us something about him.

            He is innocent until proven guilty. He will be prosecuted by a County Attorneys Office that has a known history of abusing their authority for political purposes and coercing people to lie in an attempt to frame innocent men for crimes they did not commit. Every potential juror in the County is aware of that situation, if they can read and comprehend. DJ's attorney will capitalize on that fact.

            I understand that you can't comprehend the concept of "presumption of innocence". Most people can grasp that our legal system makes a huge effort to avoid a situation where a man spends a year in jail without some good evidence that a competent County Attorney could use and have a fair chance at a conviction after a speedy trial. How would you feel about spending a year in jail for a crime you didn't commit? You would scream that you were being railroaded. DJ Savage was railroaded by the County Attorney. He gave up a year of his young life because of people with your low mentality. I'm not saying you are Joe Cik or Bernie Cassidy, I'm just saying you epitomize the mentality that pervades our corrupt local legal system. Please keep posting so people can see what we are up against with the llocal legal system.

            Just once, just once, put your selfish desires aside and look at the FACTS.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 8:53 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            As far as the story goes, where are all the posters who were on here a few months ago telling us this guy wouldn't hurt a fly, he was railroaded, and it was just a ticked-off ex-girlfriend that was causing all the problems. To hear them talk, this guy was the plum of the Troy community.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 8:51 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            8ROLL...always the martyr.. Gotta blame someone for your kick to the sidewalk. I suppose if the incumbents win the election, which is highly unlikely they all win, you will blame the bullying tactics, high profile accusations, and other crap for their winning. But, you know what, I haven't seen any of these incumbents on these threads at the pace of the four or five (including you) who have been here on a daily basis telling half -truths, using innuendos, conspiracy theories, using accusations masked in the form of a question and all the rest of it to muddy the character of the incumbents. I see them writing nice little letters to the editors talking about the good things they are trying to do for the city. All you got to offer is vigilantly justice against some perceived wrong that the Commish and the current mayor perpetrated on you. Your type of "what is good for Libby" will only bring legitimate candidates down with you. I have said it before. Your plight in life was brought on by YOUR decisions, YOUR behavior, and YOUR actions. Embrace them and live with the outcome or do something that will actually benefit the city of Libby.

             
          • homebody posted at 7:29 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            Unfortunately his last case will have nothing to do with this one because he was freed of the charges. The flip side of that is neither will his jail time already spent, it's irrelevant now. We all have to wait a long time I am sure and hopefully Oregon will do there business with him first. Then Lincoln county can welcome him back once again. It may end up his last waiting process was nothing compared to what this one could be like.

             
          • posted at 6:51 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            Posts:

            MR, "when someone tries to run over someone", your words, that would be charged as attempted murder. Nothing like that was brought to Court, where folks have to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but.

            Try to keep your lies straight. Maybe it was a question, but your drunken rambling, with poor punctuation, leaves that wide open for argument. By the way, even with the bogus high profile accusations against me, the voters kicked me to the sidewalk by a measly 5 votes. The bogus accusations were effective, I am waiting for the Mayor to pull strings to have Olsen accused of something similar any day now. Election time is upon us and Olsen is leading the pack.

            As for DJ, he will have his day in court also. He walked last time, proven innocent after spending a year in jail. It will be interesting to watch. I hope they bring in someone trustworthy to prosecute, the known rascals in the Count Attorneys Office have absolutely no credibility with the jury pool in Lincoln County. The Jury may figure the year he spent in jail before being found innocent was enough.

             
          • homebody posted at 6:10 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            We can only hope he does face an extremely large stack of well earned charges that stick and he faces justice for his actions. He didn't run from being accused and facing an unfair system, as much as he would probably like people to think that, he ran because he can't stop beating women.
            He is not a rational person or even close to it, no matter how great of a personality he may seem to have. Very much a rescue and thank God that is what is was because any other "alleged" and proven victims of this man were very afraid he might have killed her because that is how irrational he has the potential to be.
            There has always been a simple answer to DJ avoiding the system he has felt treated him badly....stop treating people so badly. The justice system is not in place to pamper and protect bad men. It's there to stop them and I truly hope that is what comes of this before he has another victim. There have been more than enough.

             
          • Deacon_Blue posted at 2:37 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            Deacon_Blue Posts: 224

            woo woo wo woo wo elder's meeting at the lodge of the Big Tony. Lesser tribesman may listen from the outside beyond the light of the bonfire. Bring Wampum Drink firewater if you have it.

            Bureau of White Reservation Affairs wishes "alleged" whiteeye victim safe return to rez. HOW!!!!!!!

            with the obligatory caveat "glad she is safe." fading into the shadows of the long night . . .

             
          • montanaraised posted at 2:35 pm on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            Please, please, 8ROLL..STOP with the martyrdom syndrome. No where did I accuse you of attempted murder. If you can't stop the martyrdom because you continually feel sorry for yourself, at least STOP the lying. No wonder the voters kicked you to the sidewalk.
            All I did was ask you a question. You have said yourself, many times. that "asking a questions of these forums doesn't constitute an accusations". Have you forgot that one? Have you been caught again in your own trap? Now I didn't say you are brain dead or that you are a rat, I just asked two simple questions, didn't I?

             
          • boredwithit posted at 11:28 am on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            No! Not at all!

             
          • posted at 11:08 am on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            Posts:

            I'm not trying to be insensitive, homebody, I'm trying to be precise and correct in my language. The lawerly types that are being exposed by these conversations are scrutinizing every word. They sent an intimidating message to me yesterday when one of their wives showed up on my doorstep. You have made it clear what your opinion of DJ is, his actions will be judged by an impartial jury.

            Remember, DJ spent time in jail before on similar accusations and walked out vindicated by a jury as innocent of the charges. I would defy anyone to say they wouldn't be tempted to run when accused again. The prosecution is going to have a hard time making it stick when his accuser explains how she was "rescued" from her alleged attacker. This will have to play out in court...again. Remember that our County Attorneys Office has engaged in thical attempts to frame an innocent man before by bribing and bullying "alleged" victims to lie in Court. Everyone should keep that in mind as this moves forward.

            Watch to see if they "stack" a load of charges against DJ in an attempt to avoid going to Court. This unethical form of intimidation is quite effective.

             
          • homebody posted at 8:43 am on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            "alleged" victim is a bit of a insensitive way to descried her. She was assaulted and he ran to avoid consequence. Convincing his victim to run with him. He ran far with no intention of turning himself in knowing he was a wanted fugitive. All for the sake of protecting himself because how had affected her life was not a factor. As long she was with him he could control her and that is 100% a victim. No one needs a court room to see that much.

             
          • posted at 5:34 am on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            Posts:

            Actually, boredwithit, lies are painful would be more accurate. MR knows she is not being truthful, we've had this conversation before. I was not charged with attempted murder like she would have you believe, I got a simple little traffic ticket. Much like what we are discussing here, an activist City Attorney and a dirty judge produced a travesty of justice and abused their positions of authorityfor political reasons. It gave me a working knowledge of the mess that our local legal system has become.

            Look at what Rob Hubbard has gone through because of the same tactics. Tell me, with a straight face, that DJ Savage or his alleged victim will get justice in Lincoln County.

            Tell me there is any justice in a system that must use lies to produce their product. We have a Deputy County Attorney who uses those tactics on children. Those in the system around him have approved of the tactics by either looking the other way or aiding the process by actively bribing the children to lie. Why do you avoid commenting on that fact that came out of a Judges ruling?

            Do you honestly believe abusing children for personal benefit is something we should approve of, boredwithit?

             
          • Chance the gardner posted at 4:03 am on Tue, Sep 10, 2013.

            Chance the gardner Posts: 1199

            Glad Ms Laffoon , is found ok ! Put Savage back in the calaboose and throw away the keys ![sneaky] This guy is a real Mutt ![sneaky][thumbdown]

             
          • boredwithit posted at 9:52 pm on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            Truth is painfull! I think you may have hurt someone's feelings MR!

             
          • posted at 8:54 pm on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            Posts:

            The adults are having a conversation MR, please keep your lies to yourself.

             
          • montanaraised posted at 6:35 pm on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            Hey 8ROLL...we can agree on something else. In an earlier post you indicated that Cik asked children to lie therefore rendering all his work no longer legitimate. The same must hold true in your mind that when someone tries to run over someone, then lies about it under oath, but tells friends that "he shouldn't have missed", then "ALL" of that persons work, actions, decisions, are rendered not "legitimate" Right? Oh crap, I'm gonna get accused of being off topic again even though you keep bringing up honesty, integrity and all the good virtues that everyone but you are lacking.

             
          • Concerned About Libby posted at 1:52 pm on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            Concerned About Libby Posts: 253

            Xcav8orr, I absolutely agree with your points.

            Again, I do not know what those three had to do with DJ's other case, I do know what they had to do with mine.

            I agree 100 percent, that if you're not against it, you're for it. If you're quietly staying out of it, then you're publicly screaming in favor of it.

            The system is broken. Everybody knows that. The positive about Libby's system, is that it's small enough and is actually fixable. It would only take getting rid of Briggs, Sheffield, Cassidy, Berget, and Bowe. Getting them out, and replacing with people that are not simply other good ole boys.

            Five bad apples, replaced with five good apples, and Lincoln County is fixed.

            Those are the people pulling the strings, and everyone else follows. Get good leaders, and you'll get good followers.

            If you simply keep replacing the subordinates, you will never change the culture, because they are not in charge of creating the culture.

            Case in point: Butler, Rebo, Guches, Smith, Barney, Graham.... those people are all gone. Many directly because of my lawsuit. Guess what... the system is as corrupt and as broken as it was before, because the people pulling the strings are still in power. They were just replaced with other spokes in the wheel, and on and on it goes.

             
          • posted at 1:31 pm on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            Posts:

            Let's hope you get a handle on the issue before you go to Court, CAL. The issue is SYSTEMIC corruption in the local legal system. Just because the Judge and the deputy County Attorney have legal immunity doesn't mean their actions were either moral or ethical, just legal. They have immunity even when their actions are malicious such as in your case.

            When you say certain parties were just "pulled into it" you miss the point that this problem occurs when people look the other way and allow justice to be subverted. Our system was designed with checks and balances. If the Judges wife or his secretary had said they would not be involved in bribing your son, it would likely have died there. If Joe Cik had a County Attorney who made it clear that manufacturing evidence and coercing perjury were off limits and would bring penalties, it wouldn't have happened. If the Sheriff trained his deputies to follow the law, they wouldn't think of calling him to ask permission to rearrange the evidence.

            When people lose repect for law enforcement, they lose respect for the law. The focus you talk about should be on justice. DJ walked because people have no respect for the local justice system. When DJ says he was set up, it is bellievable only because it has been demonstrated in Lincoln County repeatedly. You have been more vocal than anybody with allegations that you were set up. Those allegations must be dealt with to restore public trust in this system.

            Until we return to a system that requires evidence, it is reduced to a system that requires only political power to maufacture and manipulate evidence. That is directly opposed to the American system of jurisprudence.

            Look at it this way, if the players involved in both cases had put as much effort iknto building a case against DJ as they put into fabricating a case against you, DJ may very well be behind bars right now and Sandra would be home with her family.

            The time and money spent pursuing a vendetta should have been spent pursuing justice.

             
          • Concerned About Libby posted at 9:28 am on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            Concerned About Libby Posts: 253

            Homebody, I agree. I'm not sure how my case ties into this, or what Robin, Joe, and Carol had to do with his walking free, but the focus is in the wrong place.

            When DJ was found not guilty, I took the stance that he was found not guilty, and therefore let it be.

            I sitll take that stance, but I will admit that when I read this, I had the same guilt that you speak of.

            We don't know the circumstances of the last issues he has had, and we don't know the circumstances surrounding this one, but it sure "appears" as if he may have the issues that you and others say he has.

            I will not judge the guy until I see the facts, but this girl needs to be found first. The system will work it out later as far as DJ goes, but the girl should be the focus.

            And whomever MT56Libby is, they had plenty more to do than set me up.. and as clearly pointed out before, those three were pulled into it, not part of the actual conspiracy that started. I too have many more things to do, then spend 2000 hours on the computer, just to make a "bogus" lawsuit against upstanding government employees that did no wrong.

            It works both ways, and the truth is, if you're banking on the "i'm sure they have better things to do" angle, they were able to do their things, within the course and scope of their employment... so they didn't have to exert any more time... I however, have had to go outside and go above and beyond to bring this lawsuit, and it's based on law and merit.

            By the way, sign your name if you wanna put yourself out there. Although it's clear that nobody in Libby will, they just hide behind ficticious screen names and spew allegations.

            Anyway, back to the point... I hope this gal gets found asap.

             
          • posted at 9:28 am on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            Posts:

            Finding Sandra and keeping her safe is very important, homebody. No one disagrees. But, she is not the only person who is put at risk by a corrupt legal system. The conversations toward correction must begin before someone else is put in harms way by this bunch of thugs.

            There is a pattern and practice within the local legal system of acts that go against the very system which is charged with public protection. Police Officers having sex with informants and prisoners, Judges refusing to keep prosecutors in check, prosecutorial misconduct, all put every-day average citizens at risk of harm. Until these civic leaders are called to return to ethical duty, no one is safe.

            The sad reality is that we should be able to trust these authorties with keeping Sandra safe. They have failed to do so, even to the point of putting her in harms way. Correct ther system and restore public safety.

             
          • homebody posted at 9:03 am on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            Maybe the focus can be kept on a woman who is missing. A pissing match over the system is not going to find a person who will need that system to protect her when she is found. Worry about the system once she is home and safe. You can imagine every person involved in the case that allowed him to walk last time is trying to figure out how they could have prevented this situation and done things differently. FIND HER then argue.

             
          • posted at 6:41 am on Mon, Sep 9, 2013.

            Posts:

            What is more abusive than a Deputy County Attorney bullying children to lie to the Court in an attempt to falsify evidence against an innocent man, their father? Are you defending that action mt56libby?

            I'm not saying DJ is a saint, I'm saying that the County Attorneys office failed to do their job and created the conditions for this situation. Now that it comes out in Court that they actually falsify evidence, they have taken away any legitimacy from ALL of their work. It's no longer rumors started by people who have been before the Court. It is a fact determined by the Court. They have destroyed the public trust that is necessary for our system of jurisprudence to work. When the jury pool realizes that there are more crooks in the County Attorneys Office than outside of it, they will not trust that office and tend to vote for the other side. Justice is lost and people like DJ hit the streets.

            The low IQ crowd is the people who believe our American system of law can produce proper administration of the law by breaking the law and the public trust. We all hope Sandra is safe, the corrupt legal system in this County has put her in harms way.

             
          • mt56libby posted at 9:21 pm on Sun, Sep 8, 2013.

            mt56libby Posts: 1

            You're right Robbie is such a stand up guy, Robin Carol and Joe had so much to gain by setting up Rob I am sure they are all part of a secret Illuminate society to frame upstanding citizens like Robbie to look like they are abusers, they have nothing better to do. Blame them not Robbie and his bogus law suite for DJ getting off, that makes a ton of sense. It is unfortunate that there isn't a requirement to have more than a double digit IQ to comment on these articles. I hope Sandra makes it home safely to her family.

             
          • homebody posted at 9:08 am on Sat, Sep 7, 2013.

            homebody Posts: 46

            The domestic violence system is broken and whatever led to this man's freedom last time is a complete tragedy. I hope people keep in mind DJ blamed a corrupt system for the way he was treated. He has always blamed the justice system for lying about him. The women he has attacked have been judged and treated by some as instigators or liars. He was given a disturbing level of support in the community in the past. How many women does it take for people to start seeing someone is truly a sociopath and dangerous? How many families need to be subjected to this, including his own, before people stop building him up as and amazing contribution to the community? I really hope Sandra returns safe to her family from this and when she is returned by the grace of God, people will treat her with support and understand a woman cannot instigate this behavior. Praying for her safe return.

             
          • posted at 7:48 am on Sat, Sep 7, 2013.

            Posts:

            WE let him out of the calaboose, Chance, because he was acquitted of the charges, found innocent in a Court of law. The jury did not believe Joe Cik, Carol Ramos, and Robin Shiferl. These are the same players who attempted to set up Rob Hubbard by bribing his kids to LIE, they are not believable. Juries in this County know there are problems in the local legal system and tend to err on the side of liberty. That is the problem with having a bunch of liars in positions that require integrity. These folks may have started out with good intentions, but once they compromised their integrity for "justice", they ruined any hope for justice. They are as much to blame for this present situation as anyone.

             
          • boredwithit posted at 9:18 pm on Fri, Sep 6, 2013.

            boredwithit Posts: 149

            But he is great guy and wouldn't hurt anyone. BS! The guy is a dirtbag, always was a dirtbag and will always be a dirtbag!
            He got the crap beat out of him in Troy because he deserved it!

             
          • montanaraised posted at 7:19 pm on Fri, Sep 6, 2013.

            montanaraised Posts: 734

            And to think we had to read pages of his supporters who told us he was just a confused young man...and a really good person...wouldn't hurt a fly. ????????

             
          • Chance the gardner posted at 4:55 pm on Fri, Sep 6, 2013.

            Chance the gardner Posts: 1199

            And we let this guy out of the calaboose ! No surprises here ! I do hope they find her ![sad]

             

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